This can bring CNC precision to many, many work sites and applications, where it wouldnt be practical to take a wall out of a house and load it onto a traditional CNC machine. For that reason, were going to say that the X-Carve feels a little more beginner-friendly. Dont be cheap an buy the $0.75 ones tho, quality is terrible and they leave residue that is a pain to remove. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Re: Shaper Origin, is it worth it? On the metal side i have tradition lathes and mills and cnc lathes and mills up to 5 axis several ton beasts. However it is not a 2kw motor router spinning monster cutters. You can knock that down below 50% if you have a table attachment for router. Damn. Considering the amount of heavy processing involved in this kind of machine, its nearly miraculous that they manage to stay under this threshold. extensis fonts, not working; bitstamp withdrawal limits IF in a few years something bad happens and the tape cannot be bought any more then this great tool is useless. Since the algorithms know theexact location of the camera relative to the cutting tool, it can work its way backwards from the fiducial tape to determine its position. Schneider Airsystems) to have them follow their 'values' (in the sense of treating customers more like valued partners instead of victims) by offering the same guarantees as with Festool products: [mention]Gregor [/mention] I am guessing you dont work in software. This is especially important when its compensating for the unrestrained and uncoordinated movements of a Hackaday writer. Depends on your application . The router will continuously compensate for the crooked fence, even if the fence is a piece of board with a bit of a bow in it. The Shapeoko Pro was launched in September 2020. Not only does the pattern have to infinitely randomized, it has to be extremelyaccurately printed or Origin will have errors in its positioning. Shapeoko won three out of five of the above categories, which makes its overall winner today. Shapeoko 3 Review [2022] - Total 3D Printing One major drawback for the Shapeoko is the lack of dust collection if you dont keep on top of dust collection, it can damage your machine (and, more importantly, your lungs). Interesting; while I dont use a hand-held router every day, its one of my preferred tools for heaps things when a near-perfect edge is needed. right now I call that use a chisel, and the only design input requirements are a pencil. Suspiciously-large discounts for giving them your money NOWthe sooner the better. The company mentions their own public repository called shaperhub. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. First i love it. Shaper - Godsbanen X-Carve can be customized if youre an experienced and avid CNC user with a variety of add-ons, whereas the Shapeoko comes as one unit with no add-ons, X-Carve comes with a dust collector, whereas Shapeoko is a lot cheaper, X-Carve is a cloud-based software, whereas Shapeoko is a software that can be installed onto your PC or Mac, X-Carve software has some features locked behind a paid plan, whereas Shapekos free software contains all the features upfront, X-Carve takes a long time to install, whereas Shapeoko comes part-installed, Customizable great if youre an experienced user, Software is pretty straightforward to learn (approachable learning curve), 2017 update has fixed a lot of issues that users had previously, The machine works well and at a good speed, The online community of users is a nice bonus, It can take a lot of adjusting to get to maximum accuracy, The software is great and has everything you need for free, Performance is good with especially smooth results when using wood, Takes some adjusting to get the accuracy just right. So for example, I just used it to make the cut outs for the threaded inserts I'm using for my elm table project: Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions CXS Set T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set PDC 18/4 TID 18 TS 75 TSC 55 HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit Domino 500 Set Domino 700 XL OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit OF 1400 OF 1010 MFK 700 EQ Set LR 32 MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions Rotex 90 Rotex 150 LS 130 ETS-EC 150/5 ETS-EC 150/3 Pro 5 LTD RTS 400 RAS 115.04 RS 2 Planex Easy HL 850 Vecturo OS 400 AGC 18-115 CT 36AC w/BT module CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag CT-VA 20 MFT/3 STM 1800. You can also use a smartphone or tablet. I have done some design in Sketchup & used Sketchucam for the toolpaths. Most gantry routers that are able to cut a full plywood sheet wont cost just 2K. Thats not a problem with Shaper Origin per se, but more with CNC based routers (note the chess board on their homepage, it doesn't have squares with 90 deg corners). The Origin has a touch screen that controls a small trim type router motor with a 1 4 -in. Who is their target demographic? Frankly, its a chore to avoid, moving the X-Carve. The CAD system will design your product and the CAM system will manufacture it. Decrease your plunge speed and make sure Origins base is on a single surface and try again. So its not the question of big of a deal but if a >2000$ tool is built the right way. The Best Printers For The Job, How to Find the Best Carbon Fiber 3D Printer. A referral program that looks just like a classic pyramid scheme scheme (remember Herbalife?). A rocket ship is just a cylinder with some explosions behind it. Shapeoko comes with the Carbide Compact Router. But I think Id feel a lot more comfortable with an ordinary gantry machine, even a small one in the $5k range, that doesnt depend on anyone else to keep it working. No need for dowel joints or Domino loose dowels; you could place dowels and sockets wherever and whatever size and shape and spacing you want. Yes, if you know how to use tape. And it is relevant to some of our interests. When you consider that the tape is endlessly repeating and randomized, the chance that youll have the same segments of tape on the same work piece in the same orientation become virtually zero. Or a plausible alternative is to generate a quick and dirty system thats really cheap to implement. How do you test a spindle anyway? Ive tried some router work and can tell you that this level of accuracy would be unattainable for me, maybe only after several days of training. Yes, It handles metric units just fine. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. However, what i see is a cleverly designed tool, proper scientific testing of elements, a lot of work in incremental improving the prototypes, etc. Your use cases are a bit of a stretch, with the exception of working offsite where Ill grant that the Origin could have a big advantage. But in the end, a lot of what drives my own creativity (and that of the students I teach) is the excitement of exploring a unique take on the tools and materials we all love. The great thing about the Shapeoko is that the cheapest option the Shapeoko 3 is compact, meaning you can fit it into a smaller workshop, and it has a great price point of $1,170. Or, other way round, its exploiting us plentiful clumsy meatbags to carry it around, and take the work off precious robot motors. The origin of Shaper and Origin began with a frame. Origin Shaper vs Flatbed CNC Machines. We were kind of blown away by the testing device, but then again these guys are very clever. Only if you want it to fly right out of your hands and crash into mars . It offers a lot of control. However, you can try it out for free before you commit to buying the machine, which is great. . If using Auto-Mode, decrease the Auto Speed and make sure you are moving Origin slowly and consistently, without any sudden movements. Fr du m bruge Godsbanens Shapere, skal du have et kursus. Im so excited about it Ive been considering building my own to get it sooner. It has a Z axis, but it is not 3-dimensional. can you configure it to use metric units? Its tempting to boil it down and say that its a CNC machine, or a router. +1 for the X-Carve requiring a human to run it. It was semi familiar, like Piaggio or something. As of now, i have NO tool that i can use to make perfectly straight and positioned pocket cuts in thin metal sheet (really thin, its for frontplates). The X-Carve works pretty quickly, which is great if you need to produce a lot of the same product in a hurry. Will Carmakers Switch Clay For Computers? All down to needing to see an approx square foot or two in front of the tool. But it could be an interesting solution! Check Price Read Help Document About This Version Version 1.6.10, 9/29/2022 But even I had to see it to believe it. Well Ill be more comfortable with the idea when I see it second sourced without ensuing sue-age. Thankfully they gave us a great set of highlights. Pre-print the back side of the drywall with the domino pattern then set the router calibration by setting it at two corners with its camera facing onto the sheet. It was primarily aimed at businesses that wanted that extra speed and productivity compared to Shapeoko. There are some early bird discounts rising up to the final estimated retail cost of $2,099 US dollars. Ok, I did not what to comment on the other advertisement article about that small plastic milling machine with a metal milling machine price tag (hahaha, these articles are like the shopping channel commercials), but this is another thing. A shaper has a larger motor and spindle. Most likely a connection to the explosive bolts to disconnect the fuel tank came loose on launch. So first off, this post is much closer to an advertisement than I like to see on HaD. Copyright 2023 l Total3DPrinting l A Venture 4th Media Company. You can easily do things like layout a pocket for a hidden hinge without ever having to open CAD or vector software. I bet the hand saw really changed some things. But then the Shaper Origin really starts to look attractive when you consider things beyond what theyre capable of making. X-Carve is a little more beginner-friendly than Shapeoko. kelvinA wrote a comment on project log [A][R][T] Seemingly solid specification and quick comments. and by they, I mean any number of companies all around the world. If not I recommend you to leave it to a professional tapeer. Not to say that hand tools will not still be utilized but the design elements will require methods with very precise joinery due to their odd angles and visual exposure. I've never tried the comprehensively measure the precision of the SO, but I can tell you that I regularly operate within .002 increments when I'm using it. Since this printer works with different types of materials like wood, plastics, acrylic and you can use it to create anything you want, including toys, tools, accessories, furniture, and a lot more. Use my link and save $100: https://preorder.shapertools.com/ref/79WYV8BW6, What id like to see is this cutting metal (maybe V2), not think metal or anything, just 1-3mm. It is for woodworkers, and users looking to add CNC capabilities to their shop without the learning curve, footprint, and cost. HUGE community of CNCer's in there. Interestingit seems fine on wood products but I wonder about milling aluminum with all of those sharp aluminum chips that attach themselves and get stuck to everything. Most of what she has learned is from hands-on experience. I just ordered one for $1500. Shaper could be under a lot of financial stress and unable to meet the demand for many refunds. You give it a few reference points on a surface and it uses that to track. Not that big of a deal; maybe the Internet has a way to convert units? However, this can be easily fixed by buying a DeWalt dust collector. A 5" color screen on top is used to place designs, follow their path and set parameters. Correct we can only process so large of a workpiece before we simply run out of memory in the system. That is in contrast to what a traditional CNC machine entails. Accio has added CH552 USB to NRF to LoraWAN. Not a machine frame or anything technically difficult; Alec Rivers, one of the founders of Standard in the MIT inventory are the Roland MODELA MDX-20 Mini-mill and the SHOPBOT When you use the router to trace the paths its projecting on its display, it automatically corrects any errors you make by moving the bit opposite of them. All the debris will make for an uneven surface. There'd be no place for it. Available in 2 sizes. I cant believe that people would claim a CNC bed is better! The Anycubic Predator Review: Is It A Good Buy in 2022? Its perfectly fine if your mouse accumulates error, because your brain can correct as needed using the information on your monitor *youre* doing the same thing for the mouse as the tape does for the Origin. What steps would you need to do on a 2x3 setup to dado out a large furniture piece as he is showing using the Origin Shaper? None of them have pictures of the mad hacky original version. We have spent years in our homes creating projects, and learning new software and are here to share our learnings here. Can we get along? That price will unfortunately put it out of reach of most. Mallet and glue to assemble. Can I somehow use my roomba to drive this thing? And with a bit of luck there woud be 20 to 30 stacks of nicely punched and cut steel plates on a few other pallets. Could I make, say, relief maps with it as I could with a gantry router? Ill bet the Origins accuracy will never be good enough for milling PCBs. Compare CNC Router Bit Sets: Shaper Origin vs. Amana Spektra Ilan Moyer, Shapers other co-founder, confided that the their original fear was that theyd have to make it themselves. Hi Bill, it seems that youre being pulled to the dark side of the ww force. I stand by my review. It will make for some interesting reviews as to see if the pros outweigh the cons. For what its worth, the X carve is open source. I really like the look of the shaper, for how straight forward it seems and for it's lack of footprint in the workshop. Rather than a physical registration it uses a digital method . With a router you can set the cutting tool feed rate precisely, rails and motors guide the tool, here your hand movement sets the feed rate, and a low resolution positioning system guides the cutting tool. Take the tool to the work. Here the main problems, the camera resolution, the dirtiness of the camera lenses, tape on not straight surface etc. More User Friendly [Best Overall]:X-Carve is better for those who need a little extra support, either from Inventables or from other X-Carve users. We just got the Origin for my school's FabLab and are pumped to start using it. I want to purchase a CNC router and will probably stick to something like a shapeoko simply because I want to do more, like 3d bass relief. Similarly, I recently used some to tape up the gap in the mirrors of a car I had sitting outside being worked on without moving it from April until second week of August. Naturally, this heats the plate up quite a bit when its eating 500 watts of power, but it gave them a way to test any of the spindles out on the market. The concept is great, you can do large projects but you dont require a large machine. The Shaper team has come up with a lot of interesting in-house solutions for testing their machine. How Hard Could It Be To Get Millions Of Phone Bills Right? The particular problem areas would be, narrower material, smaller pieces of material, swiss cheese material that you anticipated that you could get a lot of small parts out of yet, edges of material. BCN3D Epsilon W50 Review: Worth the Price? We feel that its ability to cut properly sized holes for plugs is worth it alone. But i'm really not sure if it does actually live up to it's claims and may be more hassle than it's worth with my money better spent elsewhere. My poetic rasping aside, the Shaper Origin is the future of making things. The augmented portion is a suite of sensors and an onboard computer. Why handhold/babysit when you can let the machine do its thing. CNC machines can handle 3D relief carving and true V-carving. With the shaper origin now I can just go straight from vector to cutting and am no longer constrained to a 44 bed. shaper origin vs shapeokochapel royal, st james palace services shaper origin vs shapeoko. machine that looks very exciting but wont be available for over a year, with no explanation for why. Both machines are interesting and packed with great features so if you want to get a new hobby, either would be a great choice! And when using Workstation as a fixture, do not apply new ShaperTape because Workstation has a permanent and reusable tape array ready to go. Here are the best and worst parts of the machine: Hardware-wise, theyre closely comparable both have a great spindle that works well, and both have a generous cutting area (depending on the size of Shapeoko you choose). It goes without saying that a router cannot cut box joints on a horizontal sheet, as the bit is round and cannot cut proper corners: Ever since it was first mentioned on HaD and watching the few videos by Ben Krasnow (he successfully used it on thin metal), Ive been lusting after such a device (one that is not constrained by a gantry system, like traditional CNC rigs, so can be used in-situ or over massive areas). But anyway, thats nit picking, If its usable over 4x8 (and it is, right, Jeremy Blum? This post anywhere else would give the people working on the project an instant invention of the lifetime recognition. that is not what its forte is. There are some CNC projects that can take many hours to produce. Craftbot Flow Review Is This 3D Printer Worth the Money? Quote from: _pwawmo_ on June 12, 2020, 03:23 PM, Quote from: _pwawmo_ on June 12, 2020, 03:04 PM, https://www.shapertools.com/de-de/terms#tc, Quote from: Gregor on June 12, 2020, 07:14 PM, Quote from: Cochese on June 12, 2020, 08:33 PM, Quote from: TSO_Products on June 12, 2020, 10:22 PM, Quote from: bkharman on June 12, 2020, 07:29 PM, Quote from: Michael Kellough on June 12, 2020, 09:45 PM, Quote from: Gregor on June 13, 2020, 08:14 AM, Quote from: ryanjg117 on June 13, 2020, 06:13 PM, Quote from: bkharman on June 14, 2020, 08:33 AM, Quote from: _pwawmo_ on June 15, 2020, 10:44 AM, 3 years warranty no questions asked to demonstrate confidence in the product, 10 years spare parts availability after product EOL, and (important) a sane ToS that strikes a balance between company and customer to demonstrate business integrity. So you agree that this is about 0.3% of a finished product. It was quite a challenge to find a manufacturer who could produce the fiducial tape. All About Origin Gen 2 | Shaper Blog 17 Mar 2020. The retail price will be $ 2099. This gives it a bit of an advantage over the X-Carve, which can be a lengthy process. Believe it or not there is a substantial number of people that actually ENJOY getting covered in sawdust and working with their hands. Now repeatedly move the mouse away from, and back to, that position, and see how far you stray from your on-screen reference mark. Expect to see the Shaper Origin all over the internet this week. | Matter Hackers My wifes embroidery machine has the find the X or in its case the crossing on an 8. Awesome! But theres a problem. But the tone is so enthusiastic that it really looks like some sort of advertorial (publireportage in french), or sponsored post. It should be > 100% by your logic. How about the workshop its housed in? It could have been lighter on low-end models, Few small-sized machines on the low-end CNC machines. Have the many failed (or at least disappointing) Kickstarter campaigns taught us nothing? Otherwise, awesome idea and good luck. Sure you can jig and rig and workaround, and use fre$h tape every time, but if its getting to be more of a PITA than the manual tool, then its not justifying itself well. BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4 MFTC, MFSC. Would I draw a box on the workpiece with a pencil to mark the left/right/top/bottom edges of the design, then eyeball the alignment by looking at the screen? The ~$2k price tag is a good chunk of change for a tool that the human still has to drive ;). Only got twenty eight thousand dollars of parts and man hours in it too. Odd. Some users reported it took them a few hours from start-to-finish, others took ten or more hours. Its not an incremental change, its a change. We dont do sponsored posts. Trying to help a friend decide on a good machine for her. They are just differen machines for differend ways of working. I most definitely did not say that its uselessId love to have one, if the price (including the consumables) were more reasonable given its limitations and if I had more confidence in Shaper (the unexplained long wait, the wide spread of pre-order prices, and the weak details on the fiducial tape all make me suspicious). I'd be way more concerned what happens if the company goes belly-up. An optical mouse has no idea where it is, all it reports is delta XY position. But likely faster than multiple machining steps and multiple assembly steps. And if you need to work offsite? A few months ago you cut somewooden gears out of it. I assume that you are aware that when you get that fully functional circuitboard fit perfectly in the 3D printed casing you are about 0.3% on your way there? Remember all the hype about the Glowforge 3D Laser Printer, another gimmicky product thats in perpetual preorder status? So its not that uncommon for new and different product to have a long waiting time. Shapeoko uses Carbide Create, which is very simple to download and install. It's bare bones, but FAR cheaper and without ANY recurring software subscription costs. Below is a playlist showing way more example videos. Still, I suppose you cant put a price on impressing your friends with cool toys. One problem any engineer faces when performing tests on a newly designed hardware is whether or not the problems they are seeing are a fault of the design, or just a fault of assembly. Then bitten by climb milling in a 1/1000th of second. A CNC is for carving-type items with multiple features, layers, and detail. The machine is made from common aluminum extrusions, so if you want to make it larger than the stock 1000 x 1000mm you can. The Shapeoko machines do in fact have accessories available. Paired with a new camera, at 3.3 times the resolution to Gen1, a faster frame rate, and greater viewing angle, experienced Origin users will appreciate Gen2's snappier scanning performance. The main downside is the bed size for many affordable sizes, and the space needed for the larger bed size. OpenCV should be able to do the heavy lifting on position feedback. RW Id like to point out that the early indexed mouse pads were absolute position, more similar to todays graphics tablets than an optical mouse. lobster boat deckhand maine. I wonder about the resolution of the projector, too. The device above is called The Basket they like to joke that all their eggs (their hand-built beta prototypes) are in one basket. I have been so close to pulling trigger on a cheapie CNC router, but this is a much better tool because it can work with huge work pieces. Neat idea, however, it would be impacted by any move of the projector relative to the surface, ambiant lights, and the position of the operator while cutting. Hello CNC wizards! Shapeoko vs x-carve? : hobbycnc - reddit Quite a few people have made 1000 x 1800mm machines, and and Inventables sells the maker rails in that size, as well as 20 mm x 40 mm support rails. I am excited to see what people accomplish with this tool. Think of a Mid-Century modern or a Scandinavian modern coffee table or desk. The very first version of the Origin was a MIT research project. With a gantry router, you have to move the material to the workbed, and it has to fit. You have two choices you can choose their Fully Loaded kit, which has everything you need straight out of the box, or you can choose to customize your machine by buying the parts separately. No scam, its a referral program, you save and I get a discount too. Great for making templates or one off items. Not as intrigued as many but I have changed from from an early implementor or purchaser. So whats the big deal of spending a few bucks on a reel of duct tape? With the Origin, you have to buy the same router bits AND the fiducial tape, and the tape costs a hell of a lot more than a few bucks. it also mentions: [T]he identities of the axe, adz, chisel, and saw were clearly established more than 4,000 years ago. Cut a guide on the X-carve, use the guide on the wall with a flush-trim bit? $100 OFF for both you and me if you use my link. When it comes to performance, both have their issues. I cant see putting a decent-sized CNC router in my Makerspace (1000 sq.ft. It comes with everything you need to install, except for a 5mm hex driver bit. Most people recommend the DeWalt DW660 Dust Shoe as a simple method for dust collection. Keep in mind this isnt a Kickstarter where theyre, pretty sure it will work, we know a guy, theyve been at this for five years now. Carbide Create has an advantage over the X-Carves Easel for two reasons. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. But, you can also do much more since there is no limit to build envelope, and you cut non-sheet materials, like existing desks and already installed panels, etc. The limitation to 3D work would be the size of the baseplate. Heck, i could even go to buy raw materials somewhere, have the tool powered by my car battery, and make pre-cuts in the parking to have pieces that fits in my car, and still maintain the sizes i want to cut later on. Pantorouter, Shaper Origin, CNC router - Sawmill Creek Forget everything you thought you knew about power tools before you try to wrap your head around what Origin is capable of doing. I ordered one today, use this link to save $100, https://preorder.shapertools.com/ref/WDCME5Y0D. Not overly dodgy, just very well coordinated. perhaps even simply printing the patterns on paper, and using clear duct tape to tape it in position. Only Hackaday has any content that is interesting about a new tool that is interesting to most of us. Since it has the patterns pre-stored it wouldnt need the scanning step, the calibration is just to account for offset on any given sheet. The reviewer specifically says that they (the manufacturer) tried making their own, but it didnt give them the accuracy they really wanted. On top of that the eccentric cams provide a lot of mechanical advantagefor fast, compact, and constrained movement. But over the past few years, I've had to pass on a number of commissions that had some CNC components, simply because I didn't have those capabilities and would not have cleared a decent profit if I had had to farm that work out to a CNC shop. Meet the Handibot! When a positively charged body A is brought into proximity of an uncharged body B a negative charge will be induced in B equal and opposite to the charge in A. I don't know if people have seen the Shaper Origin which is cross between a router and a CNC, I am always impressed with how it works. Pure and simple. In our X-Carve vs Shapeoko comparison, well be looking at them both in detail. Origin can figure out where it is as long as it can see at least six dominos in its field of vision for maximum accuracy. Perhaps a complex configuration of laser lines or projected references from a fixed location (clamped) on the side of the work piece to let the machine know where it is and where it is pointing to. However, no shortcoming can survive unmolested by progress for long. Come on. Home; Professional Development; About Us; Contact us So, I should choose the Origin over a gantry router, then spend loads of time & energy working around its limitations? The question is which one should you pick? active 911 calls fort worth - scimathdll.com Id like to see some evidence for what youre saying must happen to the motors by default. From that day onward the work is never the same again. The simple answer is, anything you could imagine building with a Shopbot or Shapeoko is fair game.
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